Curse

Akhilleus · Oct 06, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

Yeah you're a hyprocrite. You're the one who made the first assumptions about people who are for inscription salvaging before I even replied to you.

as ive said about 5 dozen times now, my animosity is targeted towards a SPECIFIC type of pro-inscriptionist. i wont go into details about which type, since, if you scroll through this thread, im sure you'll find about 20 pages of my writing on the matter.
maybee you should read my posts before replying to them.
my posts, by definition, are not an assumption or generalization, because i made it VERY clear of whom i was targeting.
view:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

the idea that "i payed for this game...now i shouldnt have to work for any of the rewards in it" people with this line of thinking care only about themselves, not about the game or the other players. unfortunatly, since gaming has gotten more popular in the last decade, these people have become more and more numerous. 10 years ago beggars, ebayers, and people who bitched and moaned that they didnt have the same stuff as people who had been playing the same game for 5 times longer, didnt exist in nearly as high of a quantity.
my point? i played diablo1 for 6 years, starcraft for 7, diablo2 for 3, warcraft3 for 2, guildwars for 15 months...im loyal to the games i play, and so are most 1st generation gamers. the newer, layzer breed of gamer wants all the stuff handed to them up front, and then ditches the game 2 months later, and never bothers to get the sequel. is the latter really the kind of person you want to game with? i should hope not.

though, i will concede there are some people who are in favor of this idea, without being greedy...in fact they think it will do some good, but i firmly believe this is a slightly misguided (if not well-serving) point of view. people as this are concerned about the well-being of the game and its playerbase, but just took the wrong path because they may not see the long-term ramifications.

its pretty obvious my contention is with the "memememe" crowd, not with players who form a coherent line of thought and actually believe inscriptions will do some good.
do i believe they are mistaken? yes.
will i call them lazy? no.
because, while they may agree with inscriptions they wholeheartedly believe they will do some good, they are not in it for themselves regardless of the effect it has on others.
so to say this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

Yeah you're a hyprocrite. You're the one who made the first assumptions about people who are for inscription salvaging before I even replied to you.

...is a CLEAR display you have not been following my line of argument in this thread.

Two April Mornings · Oct 06, 2006, 12:37 AM // 00:37

i <3 Akh
i dislike the bs going on in this thread and the fact that people cannot see beyond themselves. I have to admit that i am somehwhat worried about my solid investments, but am more worried about the potential future of the game. giving anybody acess to 15^50 is already implemented, why go overkill and give everyone access to perfectly buildable weapons? the game is not suppose to be this easy. it seems that since SF has come out, improvements have been made to cater to the newer players and to the whiners. just an observation. im sitll against the implimentation of inscriptions.

Ghull Ka · Oct 06, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoredJoe

The other thing to remember about inscriptions is that you actually need to get a 15^50 drop before you can salvage it, and will it definitely be a 100% salvage? I've been playing since Aug 2005 and in that time I've probably gotten <10 15^50 drops, and this is divided among bows, swords, hammers, etc. I've bought most of my 15^50's from other players.

If the inscriptions are also weapon specific, then based on my own drop rate for 15^50's I can't see a massive disaster looming, except *maybe* a small hit to to the middle range high end, 100K + XXX ectos. IMO the 15^50 inscriptions will probably end up being a 20-30K item to trade.

Three words: Shing Jea Chests.

Cheap keys, easy to get to, no danger, and gold drops will still have 15^50's on them quite often. Inscriptions will not be expensive at all. Enjoy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two April Mornings

giving anybody acess to 15^50 is already implemented, why go overkill and give everyone access to perfectly buildable weapons?

Why not? It's not an equipment-centric or "omg phat loot" game. Skill>Grind, and all that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two April Mornings

the game is not suppose to be this easy.

Having completely customizable gear won't make the game easy. It's not an equipment-centric game where having "omg phat loot" will make you "uber godly". This isn't diablo 2 or WoW. Your equipment doesn't define how easy the game is for you.

I'll have just as much of a chance of succeeding in the FoW with my 15^50 collector's Dadao sword as I will with a 15^50 fellblade that I built myself with inscriptions... where does your "the game is not suppose to be this easy" logic come in?

Unless... the "difficulty" that you're speaking of is the "difficulty" in farming and grinding enough to afford a 15^50 fellblade that someone else might sell me for X platinum... hmmmm? Maybe that's the kind of "difficulty" you're so upset about? Your, erm, investments, did you say?

Phoenix Ex · Oct 06, 2006, 01:06 AM // 01:06

As far as I know, the game only advertise that grind will give no gameplay unbalances and not that the game shouldn't have any grind. Or else why is Fow Armor here.

sixdartbart · Oct 06, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

Yup, and the 100+ guildies, friends, alliance members that I've mentioned it to, everyone I know, likes the idea. Go figure.

(well, everyone except Bart... but he's a cranky bastard anyway

)

/uses Gaze of Contempt on the carebear

Franco · Oct 06, 2006, 01:18 AM // 01:18

lol you all saying this is good and will stop grind.

I want to see new players geting FOW armor without being able to sell a weapon for more then 20k. Thats what Id like to see.

Let me guess, after this, Minipet trading ftw ? [ AKA scammers ]

Tommy · Oct 06, 2006, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

as ive said about 5 dozen times now, my animosity is targeted towards a SPECIFIC type of pro-inscriptionist. i wont go into details about which type, since, if you scroll through this thread, im sure you'll find about 20 pages of my writing on the matter.
maybee you should read my posts before replying to them.
my posts, by definition, are not an assumption or generalization, because i made it VERY clear of whom i was targeting.
view:

its pretty obvious my contention is with the "memememe" crowd, not with players who form a coherent line of thought and actually believe inscriptions will do some good.
do i believe they are mistaken? yes.
will i call them lazy? no.
because, while they may agree with inscriptions they wholeheartedly believe they will do some good, they are not in it for themselves regardless of the effect it has on others.
so to say this...

...is a CLEAR display you have not been following my line of argument in this thread.

hmm. the inscription can actually does one good thing.. we traders can retire abit earlier

...

Evls Pwn · Oct 06, 2006, 01:28 AM // 01:28

amen to that. Sucks to see the game screwed like this though...

ChildeOfMalkav · Oct 06, 2006, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evls Pwn

Who are you to say it will be a better salvage system? Let me remind you that the "elite" players have played longer, know the economy better, and well...know the game better than you do. So if anyone can infer anything about the economy, it's them.

Oh brother. Just listen to that tripe. Besides, the economy should always take a back seat to a better system that improves weapon building versatility and variety. GW is NOT an economy game. A better salvaging system takes precedance over some flimsy virtual economy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evls Pwn

I think the inscription ruins the need for any other damage mod than 15^50. Hell, if you wanna do that, make a merch's hand gold p modded crystallines for free.

Yay for exaggerated arguments. No point in trying to argue with the ridiculous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evls Pwn

The economy and the items are a HUGE part of PvE. Since more people play PvE than PvP(or play both) isn't it therefore a huge part of GW?

Weird. I thought PVE was about killing monsters and such. Not playing virtual tycoon. Besides, there will STILL be an economy and items. I dont know why you people are freaking out about nothing. Nothing will take away your precious economy and items.

Thorsten · Oct 06, 2006, 01:40 AM // 01:40

To counter the Fissure Armor argument... Fissure armor, while largely inaccessible to a majority of game players, is not a valid example of a game imbalance. Because fissure offers only cosmetic differences from other available and more affordable armor sets, owning a set does not give a person any inherent gameplay advantage whatsoever over someone who does not own it.

I've had enough 15^50 items drop since I started playing that I'm not worried about falling prey to the holiday-shopping type insanity that turns normally intelligent people into babbling idiots that make snap purchases. Some patience and work is all it will take to save money and sanity.

A little forethought and some respectful, moral sellers should make the transition to sold inscription mods much easier than it could be. If catharsis takes hold and sellers' responsibility takes a hike, I see a few weeks of hard time ahead.

ChildeOfMalkav · Oct 06, 2006, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two April Mornings

i dislike the bs going on in this thread and the fact that people cannot see beyond themselves..

And in the next couple of lines you say:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two April Mornings

why go overkill and give everyone access to perfectly buildable weapons?

That's hilarious. So who exactly cannot see beyond themselves? Since all you people against the salvage system are the ones who have their own interests to protect. Werent you people arguing that not everyone should have rares? Werent you the ones worried that your precious stash will drop in price?

ChildeOfMalkav · Oct 06, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

as ive said about 5 dozen times now, my animosity is targeted towards a SPECIFIC type of pro-inscriptionist.

You may be telling the truth, but it doesnt help your cause when your post that I read made a bunch of generalizations with a liberal heap of words like "idiots", "lazy" and "whiners" You even said that ANET brought up this inscription idea because they were listening to idiots.

Now how am I supposed to take that to mean about us "pro-inscriptionists?"

Two April Mornings · Oct 06, 2006, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

That's hilarious. So who exactly cannot see beyond themselves? Since all you people against the salvage system are the ones who have their own interests to protect. Werent you people arguing that not everyone should have rares? Werent you the ones worried that your precious stash will drop in price?

I'm protecting my investment, right, but also the integrity of the game. And yes, not everyone should have rares, doesn't that kill the meaning of rares?

ChildeOfMalkav · Oct 06, 2006, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two April Mornings

I'm protecting my investment, right, but also the integrity of the game. And yes, not everyone should have rares, doesn't that kill the meaning of rares?

Riiight. Protecting the integrity of the game while also protecting your investment. I wonder if you'd still protect the integrity of the game if your investment wasnt threatened.

Yawgmoth · Oct 06, 2006, 02:39 AM // 02:39

I just had to reply to this post :

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

Ok so far this is what I get from the camp that opposes the new salvage options:

They think that only the few "elite" should have rare skins.

Wrong. We think of the rare skinned as rewards for actually playing the game. They're treasures for the treasure hunters. And still everyone can have them now too, it's just not very easy. Even the noobest of noobs can be lucky and get an awesome perfect gold in a chest.
What you inscriptionists say is close to "everyone should have just any possible item in game and be able to give it any possible stats it can have"
And my word is: removing the 'treasures' from the game removes the need for treasure hunting (which is exactly what many many peolpe do after beating all the missions).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

A few dont give a damn about a better salvaging system because it would ruin their "unique" weapon.

I'd like some improvements in the salvaging system but being able to freely transfer any mod between items is toooo much.
It would just remove the "uniqueness" of just anything in the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

They think that this would ruin the economy because of price drops.

Prices dropping after Nightfall: obvious but not all of them
Prices dropping ruining the economy: nope, economy will NOT be ruined as a whole, but a part of it: The gold item market will be completely destroyed, people will not be trading golds but 'skins' and 'mods' instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

They keep saying that it will ruin PVE.

It will ruin one of the elements of pve, one of the reward types, it will not have any effect on the basic gameplay of completing the missions and quests for the first time. It will ruin one of the reasons to play any more pve after completing the storyline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

They keep harping on how it will get boring if they can't sell things for hundred of platinum.

It's not the big money that matters but the very fact that the very bestest luckiest possible drop you can get will actually be nothing special because anyone can make the same thing from cheap components. That will be boring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

Items will be "useless" if they arent rare anymore.

I don't think anyone said "useless" about them, as they are even now just as useful as basic collectors stuff and this won't change.
But in fact the rarest goods will lose an use of being a status symbol for some, just like the high end armors are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

They think anyone who doesnt agree with them is a "lazy whining know nothing idiot"

lazy - yes, i believe most of them are lazy and want to get all the best rewards easily.
whining - yess, but we got whiners on both sides
know nothing idiot - exaggeration, i'd rather say thet're selfish and have no real idea of what is the function of long-term rewards in game, many levels of rewards, where the highest are attainable for the very few. they can't imagine the bad effects on the whole game world in a few months may be if the inscription systhem isn't done well and everyone gets bored with the game much quicker because of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

------------------------------------------------------------------

Did I miss anything else? I actually havent seen anything that directly opposes the new salvaging option itself. It's always about the items and economy. Both which are secondary to the actual GAMEPLAY of Guild Wars. To get so worked up over a virtual economy which is such a minor aspect of GW is silly.

You really didn't see anything directly opposing the new salvaging option in these 40+ pages ? orly? And yes, it's all about the items... because they get affected by the update.
And the effect on GAMEPLAY will be huge - with no reason to go to any high-end location more than once, no reason to do plenty of chest runs (just open a few to get the skin you want), no reason to think up interesting builds for PvE, crippled replayability... this may cause empty outposts, towns... and dying game... (thankfully i still have PvP so i don't cry

)

UndeadRoadkill · Oct 06, 2006, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two April Mornings

And yes, not everyone should have rares, doesn't that kill the meaning of rares?

No, how do you figure? "Rare" describes the drop rate of such items, not "who should have one and who shouldn't."

Two April Mornings · Oct 06, 2006, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

Riiight. Protecting the integrity of the game while also protecting your investment. I wonder if you'd still protect the integrity of the game if your investment wasnt threatened.

I still would yes, thanks for assuming the opposite though. I love Guild Wars and just wouldn't liek to see it decline like Diablo 2 after the 1.1 patch.

Two April Mornings · Oct 06, 2006, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

No, how do you figure? "Rare" describes the drop rate of such items, not "who should have one and who shouldn't."

Ok, you are right, i meant for my words to mean something else. Perhaps something to the extent of: not everyone should have perfect golden rare skinned weapons.

UndeadRoadkill · Oct 06, 2006, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two April Mornings

Ok, you are right, i meant for my words to mean something else. Perhaps something to the extent of: not everyone should have perfect golden rare skinned weapons.

So you can feel special? If all skins are attainable,and we can build the stats as we wish, then everyone can select a skin that suits their own taste. If we get rid of that "this is the ultimate skin for this weapon" thing, we should see more diversity, rather than someone just buying and using the Ultimate Skin simply to show off that they have one. I think customization and a bit of role-playing is much better than a game of Show-Off.

Two April Mornings · Oct 06, 2006, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

So you can feel special? If all skins are attainable,and we can build the stats as we wish, then everyone can select a skin that suits their own taste. If we get rid of that "this is the ultimate skin for this weapon" thing, we should see more diversity, rather than someone just buying and using the Ultimate Skin simply to show off that they have one. I think customization and a bit of role-playing is much better than a game of Show-Off.

Its not necessarily show-off. Many players who have finished the whole of the PVE side of the games simpyl try to attain the established rarest of skins because that is what is left to do to be "complete."

Guild Wars has also been built around a certain effort. If you do really want that skin adn those stats, you have to work to get them. Whether through trading or farming. Most people do not do this, seeing as how rare and difficult it is to attain such items. Many call it a grind. Just because of this though, it doesn't mean that they shoudl be all of a sudden easily available to everyone.